A lot of the Winter Soldier testimony is made up, you know. I think a lot of vets were sick of the war. They received no acclaim for serving, but suddenly got stature from both being "disturbed and traumatized" by the war. Suddenly they got their 15 minutes of fame by laying bare their souls about war crimes.
I have frequently heard people claiming to be Marine Vets talk about the awful times they had in "the Nam". They usually claim to be Marines, and go at length about the atrocities they were engaged in. I usually ask them what unit they served in, and they will make up some number that is not in the Marine Corps. They won't know what bases they operated out of. So only believe about 1% of what you hear.
A typical example of an individual who is slinging BS big time is this guy Bangert from the Winter Soldier Investigation. Here's a summary of what he told the Winter Soldier "Investigation":
Joe Bangert enlists in 1968, and serves in VMO-6, an aviation unit that flies very small observation planes. Banger does not state his MOS (Military Occupational Specialty), but almost all the enlisted men in these units were maintenance types - fix airplanes, attach bombs, fix radios, etc. They usually did not fly, and they saw very little combat.
Bangert says he sees a truck load of Marines murder a bunch of children on his first day with two officers present. Then he sees bodies "crucified" on perimeter wire, apparently cut up with knives and hung on the wire. Then he has a friend who is CIA who takes him somewhere, murders a woman with twenty shots, then cuts open her vagina, takes out her organs and skins her. The perpetrator was a former military officer, and two other field grade officers knew about it.
Then Bangert works with the pacification program in Vietnam, and travels extensively through Quang Tri Province. He sees approximately twenty deformed infants under the age of one.
Bangert sees journalists, specifically women journalists who were readily welcomed into the unit. There was always this whitewashing thing. Well, sometimes these people would go right past the bodies and come into our base to get a story. They were kept away from the enlisted men, away from the people who were involved. The typical thing was to take them down to the Officers Club, get them soused.
Elsewhere in his testimony, Bangert claims to be a door gunner with two helo units.
Anybody who believes these tall tales is awfully gullible. Bangert worked for a light observation squadron - very little combat. The men worked like coolies, often 16 hours a day 7 days a week, servicing planes, refueling, rearming, preparing, cleaning, maintaining. Usually they did not fly. They did not get to wander off on secret CIA missions. They did not participate in the CAP program - these were separate small units who lived permanently in villages, protecting the villages from the VC. They did not get to wander around Quang Tri looking at deformed kids. He states on his first day he sees a bunch of kids murdered on Route 1 -- this the main thoroughfare through the area, not some remote area. Can you imagine the press coverage? He says the press saw the crucified bodies, but were wooed with booze and did not report on this. Come on, get real.
So how much is the rest fabricated? Some no doubt is true. When a story is limited, it is more credible. But a lot of it is people telling tales, pathological liars and just plain liars. Bangert leads a rich fantasy life suitable for Stephen King.
As the song says, "lie lie lie, lie lie lie lie, lie lie lie, lie lie lie..."
We're accumulating reports that subject the wild claims of the Winter Soldier witnesses to the harsh light of reality. Thanks for this excellent example.----------
A few weeks ago I forwarded an emailed article from the Pensacola News Journal, which related how the local community was pulling together to build a home to meet the special requirements of a young Florida National Guard infantryman, SSGT Dustin Tuller, who lost both legs in a firefight in Iraq. This brave young noncom was recently honored by his hometown community when he and his family came home from Walter Reed, where he had been convalescing for many months and getting fitted with prosthetic limbs.
In the newspaper account of that homecoming event was a quote that I find notable because it says so much about Americans and what an America at war is really all about. When asked about the construction of the home by community volunteers, Tuller's father, said this,
"They're driving those nails in that house with one thought in mind. And that's their freedom and what it means to them."
Reading that made me wonder how many seriously injured Vietnam veterans were denied this kind of community support because of the vicious and calculated lies perpetrated by John Kerry and that sorry-ass, ragtag bunch of scumbag, pseudo-soldiers he led. How many sacrificing, honorable warriors were left alone, isolated and embittered with their grievous wounds, rejected by an ungrateful nation, because of the manipulative, purposeful deceptions of a scheming, ambitious politician.
And now this shameless jerk, who, more than any other single person, created this unwarranted image of Vietnam veterans, wants us to join his Band of Brothers? Band of Brothers my ass! More like Band of Mothers to this veteran who will never, ever forgive John Kerry’s contemptible, destructive use of good and honorable soldiers to further his own selfish ambitions.
Remember the scumbags chanting, "Hey, hey, LBJ, how many babies did you kill today?"
Well I say, "Hey, hey, JFK, how many lives did you ruin on your way?"
Remember the ubiquitous "FTW!" emblazoned on VVAW posters and banners?
Well this old soldier believes that "FJK!" is a more appropriate acronym for these times.
2d Bn, 327th Parachute Infantry Regiment
101st Airborne Division
Our own impression is that much of the current mobilization of Vietnam vets against Kerry is fueled by a grim resolve not to allow the sacrifice of another generation of American soldiers to be demeaned and wasted.----------
I would like to say something about Mr. Kerry. In 1968 or 1969 I received a letter from Kerry and the Vietnam Veterans Against the War. I was encouraged to return my Purple Heart [with cluster -- I have 2] and my Bronze Star w/ V device [Valor] and join his protest against the war. I relized this was not going to stop the war but would help him and the likes of Jane Fonda achieve their own agendas. Now I see Kerry using his veteran status to help him in his bid for the presidency. I would like to know why he didn`t send his MEDALS back like he tried to get me to do. He went to Nam to help his own political future and had his own agenda and never wanted to help the guys who were spilling their blood for AMERICA and FREEDOM! This Kerry should have been stripped of all Veteran Benefits. Let's stop this fair weather politican from completing the agenda he started with the Vietnam War . The Brave men and women who gave the ultimate sacrifice should not have their Brave deeds forsaken by J. Kerry. Best Regards and God Bless AMERICA.
Well said, and thanks for serving.
9th. Inf. Div. 5th./60th Mech.
11th ACR. K TRP
Sounds like "do what I say, not what I do..."----------
I turned on the Laura Ingram show late today and caught the end of the
segment with your represesntative. I thought I heard that in Kerry's book
or somewhere that he showed either a picture or cartoon of the the Iwo Jima Memorial with bearded Marines raising an upside down flag. Is this true and where can I find this? Is it on your website? If this is true, than no former or current Marine should keep this silent. It should be all over the news. This contempt and disrespect is reprehensible. I am a former Marine helicopter pilot and I will do my best to inform the greater Sacramento area by whatever means necessary.
Thanks for writing, and for serving.
All the text and many of the photos from "The New Soldier," published by John Kerry and Vietnam Veterans Against the War in 1971, are available in the Topic area titled "John Kerry Smears the Troops: The New Soldier." The cover of the book, with its infamous photo, is at the upper left of this page.----------
Mocking the Iwo Jima flag-raising was by no means the most egregious of the VVAW's attacks on the U.S. military. Consider this charming flyer they handed out during "war crimes simulations." That's from our Documents section. There's a lot more stuff there, including film footage of VVAW members throwing away medals at the U.S. Capitol, and the glowing coverage their protests received in the communist paper "The Daily World."
Thanks for writing, and for your service.
Our thanks to everyone who pointed out the extra "N" in the title of this mmorning's NNewsletter. The offending individual has been severely admonished.
Being one of the youngest soldiers in Sacho, Korea (above the 38th on the sea of Japan coast) when the armistice was declared, 17 plus months in Korea, I can't express how much I appreciate the stand you are taking and hope that you don't let up. This country has to keep informed people who will maintain the guts to step forward and keep our country safe, this includes those who are so stupid that they think acting the part of a
passivist ostrich will forever protect them. I will continue reading the e-mails you send my way and pass the information on to others.
We're in this for the long haul.----------
Just read the article by Pat Buchanan. So, if Kerry was there and resigned because of the talk of killing the senators, didn't I read about a time post-Kansas City when he was still speaking for and representing this organization?
Thanks for the support and thanks for your service.
That is correct. WinterSoldier.com was the first to provide documentation of several events at which Kerry represented Vietnam Veterans Against the War after the November, 1971 conference in Kansas City where the assassination of U.S. Senators was discussed. See: January 11, 1972, January 25, 1972, and April 22, 1972.----------
FBI files on the conference also reported that "John Kerry, a national VVAW leader, appeared at the meeting and announced to those present he was resigning from the Executive Committee for personal reasons; however, he would be available to speak for VVAW." See: FBI files (PDF).
It appears from his article that Mr. Buchanan is unaware of these news articles and FBI reports.
Your site has been very informative. And I have recommended it to many. I just saw the picture titled Kerry's Wall with some of his accusations written into the wall. I'm sorry but this is very poor taste. That Wall is sacred. There is marble stone engraved with my husbands name on it a Vietnam Veteran that died from service related causes after a tour of duty in Vietnam. If I were browsing the internet and found someone had used that stone to make a political statement even if I were to agree with the statement I would be very angry. Please consider the names on that wall represent daddy's, soul mates, lovers, brothers, sisters, children, husbands and friends. Those names are alive with memories. I respectfully request that you remove that picture from your website and consider that using the Wall to make a political statement is no different than using flag covered coffins. Thank you for standing up for those of us that know that John Kerry lied in 1971 and he's lying now.
Mrs. Ernest Bill Holdren
Dear Mrs. Holdren,----------
Kerry's Wall, by graphic artist Steve Gallagher, is purely a PhotoShop image, not a photo of the real Wall at the Vietnam Memorial. None of the names that appear are actual names of American soldiers; they were created by a random name generator. We felt, and continue to feel, that these precautions are sufficient to permit using the idea of the Wall for a political statement, as is done in editorial cartoons quite often.
We hope this addresses your concerns. We honor your husband's service, and do not wish to cause you or other military families distress.
I'm the one you quote on your website, the daughter... and I just needed to write and say keep up the fantastic work! I have been following your postings as well on the Free Republic website and trying to keep my huge military distro list looking at you as well...
We all know war affects people differently. The way Vietnam affected many of us was to instill a HUGE desire for TRUTH. The quotes you post are undeniable and unforgiveable. We'll continue to work to make sure they become widely known.
Laura B. Armstrong
Thanks very much. For those who haven't read her powerful article ... and Kerry's past speaks louder than his words, Laura Bartholomew Armstrong is the daughter of Lt. Col. Roger "Black Bart" Bartholomew, a First Air Cavalry rocket artillery helicopter pilot who was killed in Vietnam on Thanksgiving day, 1968, when she was 8 years old. We posted an excerpt a few weeks back on our Quotes page.----------
As far as I'm concerned John Kerry owes an apology to all the soldiers that were sent to Viet Nam, as well as their mothers, fathers, spouses, siblings and especially the children of the Viet Nam Veterans. These brave men returned to be spat upon, and called baby killers. It has taken my husband some thirty years to be able to speak about this war because of what John Kerry and his Veterans Against the War propagated to the American people. Yet every day Mr. Kerry reminds us that he was a "war hero". I know a true hero, I have been married to him for thirty-five years, and he is a kind and loving man. There are many more men like him that have had to live with this stigma due to the likes of John Kerry.
We will also continue to work until the truth is widely known.
Shirley Coakley Papadopoulos
That's the situation we hope to change -- thirty years is long enough.----------
I heard about this web site from an interview on the Glenn Beck program. I found it very informative and will pass it along.
We liked John O'Neill's comment on CNN when Wolf Blitzer asked if he could "forgive" Kerry: "It's really not a matter of forgiveness, it's a matter of fitness to be the Commander in Chief of all U.S. forces."
The main reason for writing however is this: I served four years active duty and am currently in the National Guard with a combined service of 18 years. I would like to convey my gratitude to the Vietnam Veterans for their service. When I am going to drill, I rarely stop at any store or even gas station because at times the public almost fawns over a soldier. (I certainly don't deserve it and am embarrassed by it.) And I think one of the reasons that the soldier today is held in high regard is because of the horrendous treatment that the Vietnam Veteran received. The country knows it made a mistake in how Vietnam Veterans were treated and it seems have taken a collective vow never to let that happen again. It pains me to know that you were never treated as the heroes that you are. Thank-you again for your service to our country.
SSG Jerry L. Hill
Co A, 638 DASB
The contempt which awaited returning Vietnam veterans was a real anomaly in American history. The country has now returned to its usual stance of holding those who fight to defend it in high regard. This forces Kerry's defenders to perform remarkable verbal gymnastics as they try to explain that he really loved and respected America's troops even though he claimed they routinely murdered civilians. Kerry spokesman Michael Meehan recently described the VVAW as "thoughtful" and "moderate" and said they "worked to help restore the honor to our veterans." Meehan obviously hopes people won't find out about the sort of information we're making available, like this tasteful VVAW flyer describing American soldiers as racist butchers who committed war crimes against the Vietnamese every day. ----------
I cannot believe that people can write such things as I have just read on your site. and say that they are Americans. I am not a fan of John Kerry. will not vote for him. but.most certainly will not vote for Bush.when he came into Office. we had no deficit. and we were not at war.taxes were not lower just for the rich.and whatever Bill Clinton done. in his private life. was his business.and his wife's.it was not right. but, he certainly is not the first to do such.Bush went after Saddam. simply because Saddam tried to get Daddy. G.W. is like a cartoon character.the butt of many jokes. and not from just the Dems. if you cant say anything good about a person. say nothing. as you get these hairbrained radicals all in an uproar.T.V. Radio. and Internet. that allows people like you on should be outlawed.
Read my next sentence slowly -- it's important.----------
Dear Mr. O'Neal,
People who understand and respect the American idea do not advocate using laws to silence people with whom they disagree.
I saw your interview on CSPAN this morning. I was moved by what you had to say and believe you completely. My hard-nosed-lawyer-Liberal-leaning-husband believed you too. He says that you are the kind of person, he would like to have, on his side, as a witness. You ARE a witness, to an important part of our history. Your presentation is genuine, cogent, trustworthy. Thank goodness you have come forward at this critical time. With our soldiers fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan we can not afford to allow a man such as Kerry to ever have the opportunity to direct our military as President. As I have watched him over the last few months and I have felt that he is a user, and a liar. Thank you for the sobering confirmation of these feelings.
You spoke this morning of the ill health of your wife and the kidney you have given her. I hope that you and your wife recover completely and live long and happy lives. I also hope that you will be able to withstand the attacks, that are sure to come by your coming forward with these truths. Thank you very much for your passed and continued service to this country. Bless you, you are one of the good guys. What you have done is true heroism.
We have forwarded your letter to John O'Neill. We consider it an honor to be working with John, and plan to support his efforts in every way we can.----------
Thanks for writing.
I served two turns in VN and I think you spokesman is a biggot and I know that he set on wash journal and lied his ass off.
I think you need to find some of the special forces, like me to step and said that I did that so the government can charge them with war crimes, how stipid do you think we are?
I carried three of my best friends in body bags to the helicopter for evacuation, I'm not going to tell you what I did and where I was and who I was with.
BUT I think you need a better proproganda machine other than the republicans bucause Im a rep. and I guarantee we are sending you draft dodging court appointed president back to your screw up state.
WAS YOU SPIT ON, if not, you dont have no right to say a damn thing about any vet from viet nam, an yes, I am sole surviving son so stick your propaganda bull shit where the sun dont shine.
You'd think by now we'd be attracting a better grade of enemy...----------
I saw the interview that John O'Neil did on C-SPAN this morning, it was great, can you send me more info on who served with John Kerry and How do I contact John O'Neil for more information? I served 14 years in the Air Force from 1985 active duty until 1992 until 2001 including a tour of operation northern watch in 1999 when we were dropping on targets in Iraq.
You can reach John at JohnONeill@WinterSoldier.com. We don't have much information about who served with John Kerry, since WinterSoldier.com is focused on the "war crimes" propaganda effort, not Kerry's military record or lack thereof.----------
In the spring of 1969, General William C. Westmoreland, then U. S.
Army Chief of Staff, gave a presentation to the U. S. Armed Forces
Staff College in Norfolk, Virginia. He concluded with this story,
which I will try to quote verbatim to the best of my memory.
Thanks for serving.
I recently had the privilege of decorating a young Captain for valor
in Vietnam. He was in command of a battery of 105 howitzers. They
started taking mortar fire. He had a then-experimental counter-mortar
radar that showed the mortar fire was coming from a nearby village.
All of his instincts and training said to traverse his guns and
silence the mortar, but he didn't do that. Instead, he ordered his
men to take cover and led a platoon to the village on foot.
As they got there, they saw the villagers were gathered in the center
of the village, so they silently moved forward behind the buildings.
In the middle of that gathering there was a ten-foot diameter pit in
the ground, and in the pit, three enemy soldiers holding guns on the
villagers while the mortar crew fired at the American artillery
The Captain and two of his men went in low, screening themselves
behind the villagers, lobbed grenades, and yelled. They and the
villagers fell away from the pit. The grenades went off in the pit.
They ran forward and cleaned up the situation, and that was that. No
As I was pinning on his medal, I asked the Captain how he got so smart.
He said, "Oh, you could always expect 'em to pull a stunt like that
when there was an American TV crew in the province."
Ladies and gentlemen, the Captain knows his war.
I believe this story is as relevant today as it was 35 years ago.
Ben H. Swett
Colonel USAF (Retired)
We agree. Thanks...----------
Attached is a copy of a letter published today in the Waycross Journal Herald. Waycross, Georgia is in South Georgia and has been my home since retiring from the U. S. Army in Novermber, 1978. I wanted to make sure folks around here knew how I felt about Mr. Kerry.
Senator Kerry and his band of brothers
A lot of people have asked me why I don't support my fellow Vietnam veteran John Kerry for president. Here's why. When Kerry returned from Vietnam he turned his back on all Vietnam Veterans when he testified before congress and made some outrageous charges against our military forces serving in Vietnam. He even bragged that as a twenty-seven year old civilian, he went to Paris, France and "talked with both delegations at the peace talks" and met with communist representatives. Kerry testified that American troops were killing innocent women and children, raping the Vietnamese women, burning their homes, killing livestock and all sorts of other horrible crimes against the Vietnamese people. He discovered all this after serving for four months in a combat zone in 1969. I am still waiting for someone in the news media to ask Mr. Kerry why he didn't report these terrible things at the time they came to his attention, as we were all trained to do.
Terrible atrocities were committed but not by Americans but by the Communist forces. I was in Vietnam with the First Cavalry Division for one year in 1966-1967. We were in constant combat for my total tour of duty and I never witnessed any atrocities such as John Kerry described. I do know of one bad experience where one soldier in my unit tossed a grenade into a Vietnamese hutch and injured some people. This soldier was tried and Court-martialed for his actions and it was definitely an isolated incident. The things that I did witness on a day to basis were soldiers giving Vietnamese civilians clothes, food and medical care. Our C ration packets came with some essential items such as writing tablets, chewing gum, candy, ballpoint pens and a few other items that made life a little more bearable. We saved the gum and candy and gave it to the children, which eagerly came up to us when we passed through their villages.
I wrote my wife letters on how fortunate we Americans are and how it broke my heart to see the little children without proper food and clothing. One day a helicopter dropped off a load of large boxes filled with children clothes my wife had collected from members of Central Baptist church. The boxes of clothes were taken to the village of An Khe and with the help of a local Vietnamese orphans home, the clothes were handed out to happy and excited little Vietnamese kids.
War is by definition brutal, violet and inhuman but it has been my experience that it is our enemies who resort to the horrible crimes Kerry described in his testimony before Congress in 1971. Mr. Kerry says his words have been taken out of context. Well, you don't have to take my word on what he said because his testimony is posted all over the Internet and you can read his comments for yourself. There are millions of Vietnam veterans still alive and it will be interesting to see how many band together to help Mr. Kerry in his battle to be President. Senator Kerry, this is one Vietnam Veteran that will not join your band of brothers.
That's a powerful letter. Thanks for passing it along.----------
You just have to shake your head and sigh at the incoming rounds of profanity from the so-called enlightened left. I get a chuckle out of picturing them bugeyed with righteous, er, leftist rage, sitting in front of their moniters, pounding out their foul-mouthed frustration on their hapless keyboards.
The ones who manage to express their thoughts and feelings with some degree of competence, usually do so with an air of smug superiority, conveying an ill-concealed contempt for anyone who doesn't see things their way. We're just a bunch of benighted, humorless rightwingers, unnuanced in our thinking, you know.
With that in mind, I got up early one morning and penned the following. I haven't seen any verse in Incoming but what the heck, how about a little change in pace, Admin?
The Nuanced Politician
While I may have voted for something that I now deplore,
What I really meant to say in my subtle nuanced way,
Is you may not comprehend just how willingly I bend,
When I find I can appease special interests with such ease,
Just by making them such offers as will serve to fill my coffers.
If you find this insincere your unsophistication’s clear,
So unnuanced is your thinking that you fail to see the linking,
To my obvious obsession with creating the impression,
That I eagerly agree with whatever it may be,
From those I’m seeking favor and whose vote I need and savor.
What I suppose I’m trying to say in my subtle nuanced way,
Is I truly understand if most people in this land,
Sadly never get the chance to spend half their lives in France,
Where skilled circumlocution is an honored institution,
Where I learned to say I’m for it while I truly do abhor it.
So when you hear me say that I really voted nay,
On an issue such as war, which you know I’m really for,
Please don’t harbor a suspicion of my genuine position,
When my nuanced explanation to an unenlightened nation,
Seems to make such little sense to a public truly dense.
Now when I call you brother just forget that other mother,
Who called you babyraper and smeared you in the paper,
So your reputation’s muddy, just forget all that now buddy,
That was merely a deception to assist in my election,
This nuanced pol really knew that your hearts were pure and true,
So cast your vote for John now so proud he served in Nam.
2d Bn, 327th Parachute Infantry Regiment
101st Airborne Division
Thank you. We at WinterSoldier.com are always open to broadening our cultural horizons, though we draw the line at interpretive dance.----------
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Please remove the film clips from your website immediately. You are breaking the law if you do not. I am sure that property rights are important to you.
You do not have the right to use either the filmed likeness or voice recording of any of the participants in the film, nor can you use stills or other material from the work, as these are also protected by copyright.
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Thank you for you consideration.
We are advised that your claims concerning the nature of the protections provided to you under the Copyright Act are incorrect. We invite your attention to 17USC107 and urge you to compare that Section with your assertion that "you do not have the right to excerpt, copy or in any way show portions of the work on your website..."
We are a non-profit corporation; we are using clips that total 3 minutes 7 seconds of a 110 minute film; and we are using them for the purposes of education and criticism. We believe that these conditions more than satisfy the requirements of Section 107.
In regard to Mr. Peter Werbe's and others comments about the "war in Iraq" being folly, they are ignoring that Iraq is just one campaign in a larger war against international terrorism. Bin Laden and his followers launched this war in the 1980's and it was not until 11 Sept 2001 that America realized it. Unfortunately many have forgotten that and have returned to living on 10 Sept 2001.
The War on Terrorism has now had two major campaigns: Afghanistan and Iraq. There are minor campaigns going on in various other places in the Middle East, Pacific rim, Africa and right here in the United States. To decry "Iraq as folly" is similar to those who would say that the invasion of Italy was useless, that we lost too many soldiers to take the jungle island of Guadalcanal, or that all of the US losses in Europe before D-Day were wasted because we should have invaded France first.
Thanks for your effort.
Frank R. Shirer
US Army, Retired.
We agree that when weighing American losses and accomplishments during the War on Terror, a little historical perspective is in order.----------
I'm sure there are worst scum on the planet, but you are right up there with the top. You couldn't care less about Vietnam vets, let alone the people of Vietnam, of whom over three million were killed, mostly civilians. You just want to score points for the evil fraud in the White House.
Your day is passing and quickly, but unfortunately not soon enough for those who will lose their lives in BushCo's fool's errand in Iraq. You're just like the last generation of Chickenhawks, cheering on the grunts from the sidelines while they kill and are killed. You're despectable.
Listen to Peter's phone-in talk show, Nightcall, Sundays, 11pm-2am, on WRIF-FM 101.1; and his Sunday morning interview shows on WCSX-FM and WMGC-FM 105.1, in Detroit, or online at www.peterwerbe.com; go to "on the air" on the top bar.
Daffy, the word you are unsuccessfully groping for is "despicable."----------
Dear Winter Soldier People,
In "America in Vietnam" Guenter Lewy wrote, "I have tried to show here that VC terror was not a selective political weapon employed against a few corrupt officials but in fact cost the lives of many thousands of innocent people. The American counterinsurgency effort, on the other hand, while often carried out in a self-defeating manner, generally did not violate international law, did not seek to destroy the civilian population as a matter of deliberate policy, and did not cause civilian casualties in proportions uniquely different from other wars of this century." (pp305)
Professor Lewy's remarks cover only civilian casualties during American involvement in the war, not the communist genocide that followed. Some two million were murdered in Cambodia. Hundreds of thousands died in Vietnam's forced labor camps. Somewhere between one and two million Vietnamese fled the country, with tens of thousands drowning in the attempt.
About one million refugees of the Vietnamese terror chose to come here, to the United States of America.
Your statement that it was American troops who really committed genocide rather than the communists is the leftist Big Lie about Vietnam. It was started by the Soviet KGB, dramatized and "documented" in America by people like Kerry and Fonda, amplified by a sympathetic media, and enshrined in the popular culture by Hollywood, but it is still a lie -- a claim as grotesque as insisting that American troops rather than Nazis caused the Holocaust.
It is precisely that lie that we are targeting here, by showing how the purveyors of the lie organized and operated, and by providing accurate information to help people inform themselves about what really happened.
As for your other insulting remarks, we will only note that the standards of the radio stations which employ you must be deplorably low.
Even though the beginning of my service was in 1942 and predated Mr. Kerry's two months by a few years, I had forgotten most of the raunchy and subversive things he and Hanoi Jane spouted back then. I want to thank you for bringing those times back to our attention.
The present-day diatribes Mr. Kerry [and Jane] spread are bad enough without considering their history, but reminding us that this has been going on for years is a real service. Surely there are enough real Americans left to put those people in their place -- maybe Hanoi!
Thank you for bringing your web service to my attention. I will make some others aware of it.
Bill Wiley, Major, USAF, Retired
In fairness to Kerry, we believe his time in combat was closer to four months than two.----------
I live in the St. Louis area, work for a major aircraft company. I am an Air Force Vet who served in So. East Asia in 69-70. My unit was twice decorated. I was all over asia, sometimes we were not really sure which country we were in. Did a lot of good things for good people and a lot of bad things to some bad people... we all did. I am a patriot who was spit on during my effort to attain a college education after my service time. I was called "baby killer", part of the system and psycho. It all ended when another vet and myself threw an American history professor out of his classroom for making a statement about us that was over the line. Never finished my education, at least the last 2 years. Never knew why we were called baby killers, that is until Kerry ran for president. Then I heard his speech of Apr. 71... now I know. Him and Jane. They did it to us! And this coward received 3 purple hearts in Naval action in 4 months. I don't believe a word of it! My dad in ww-2 never received a single medal. His service in combat was extrodinary and he brought home 6 pieces of jap shrapnel in his back that was eventually cut out by our family doctor in the mid 50s... No purple heart for him and he did not even ask why. Tell me what I can do to help defeat Kerry.
Thanks for the kudos, and for helping spread the word. We Winter Soldier People -- that has rather a ring to it -- thought we had a pretty good understanding of the antiwar movement, but we continue to be amazed as we learn how relentless and systematic the "American genocide" propaganda effort really was. More people need to know about that.
That we can't do -- as a 501(c)4 non-profit organization, we may not support or oppose any candidate for political office. We can and will take advantage of Kerry's candidacy to publicize what he and others did to malign the service of honorable veterans, and to try to set the record straight. However, if you check around a bit, we doubt you'll have much trouble joining up with others who share your goals.----------
Thank you for your site. Keep up the good work. I found your your URL from posts on Free Republic.
Thanks for serving.
I write to offer a suggestion. The Library of Congress is seeking first person accounts. A link to their URL on your site might help make sure history writers in the future have more than just news & views provided by journalists & activist organizations to work with.
PS: It's too bad. I see no contribution by J Kerry to this project. :(
Thanks for the suggestion. We've added the Veterans History Project to our list of links, and invite our readers to participate.----------
I would like to express my sincere appreciation for the outstanding service you are performing on behalf of the millions of men and women that nobly served our great nation. A service that will bring to light the truth of those troubling and divisive years. I cannot commend you enough for the highly polished manner in which you are conducting this revelation.
I have read nearly every article and piece of news that you have presented. I make it a point to read it each day. It is a duty that I owe to my family, friends, and the men that served with me so bravely, so tirelessly, and so faithfully their country a long time ago and far away. For those of us that survived the trials and tribulations and lived through that era, the debt we owe to those that perished, their loved ones, the still Missing In Action and especially to their loved ones that suffer to this day, the generations after us that have been taught a distorted history of the time, and to the nation and world is nothing less than the pure, unadulterated truth.
At last it is time to bring forth the testimony of those so sorely accused by John Kerry, Jane Fonda, and the rest of their disheveled rabble and expose the miscreants for their dastardly disservice and reveal them for who they were, what they were and what they represented. The damage and hurt they have caused this nation is immeasurable. The hate they generated was so intense that much of it persists to this day and that hatred has served to divide this nation as a people. A sad commentary on that period of our history. Let your efforts be an endeavor to replace those hatreds and hostilities with a clear and accurate picture of the truth.
I remember quite vividly the scornful and hateful looks, the ugly accusations, the disrespectful treatment I received when I returned home on Thanksgiving Day 1969. I dismissed them then as words from brain washed neophytes with little knowledge of what the actual situation was in war torn Viet Nam. I remember the intense bile spewing forth from my university professors in 1971 when I returned to finish a degree I had set aside in 1966 to serve my country. Yes indeed, we do remember and let it begin here!
I was a captain with the 5th Special Forces Group Airborne serving in the II Corps area of operations, specifically the Central Highlands of Viet Nam. All of the men under my command and others that I had knowledge of never committed any of the atrocities or mutilations so vividly depicted by John Kerry and his Band of Liars. Not ever! I consider his accusations and those of his Band of Ilk slanderous and totally disparaging not only to myself but also to all of those professional soldiers that served with me.
He either needs to put up the evidence, admit that he, the accuser, was guilty of the actions himself or come clean and admit it was all a lie with perhaps an ulterior motive. He needs to open his records to scrutiny and intense examination. Does he have something to hide? If any one group of people has a right to know the details of his service record, it is those that served in Viet Nam. It is equally important that all service personnel that served their nation at other duty assignments be delivered an explanation for they also suffered from the verbal and physical abuse generated by John Kerry.
My college roommate went into the Air Force, never went to Viet Nam; yet, he was jeered at and attacked while serving honorably in the United States. I believe that the hostile treatment he received was as a direct result of the actions of John Kerry, Jane Fonda, the Band of Ilk, the leftist liberal media, and ultra liberal educators. The fabricated lies, accusations,distortions and obfuscations of the truth by the aforementioned people played a major role in dividing the citizens of this country against one another. The amazing thing is the swiftness with which they achieved their goals.
The contempt that I have for them is deeply felt and an accounting for their actions is demanded.
De Oppresso Liber
James P. Lattimore
Detachment A-232, Third Battalion, B-20 Mobile Strike Force, 5th Special Forces Group Airborne, II Corps, RVN 1968-69.
Thanks for the kind words -- we'll try to live up to them.----------
My brother's best friend, Robert, USMC, is still listed as MIA after his A6 Intruder was shot down on 10/12/72. I've touched his name on the Wall. And wept.
A wave is building out there. It's still in the gathering stage, but it seems to consist of two elements: the anger you and others express at having been unjustly maligned, and a dawning hope that these old wrongs can finally be set right.
It's too early to say how the wave will look when it reaches the shore. But we have a pretty good view from here, and it makes the skin prickle just a bit.
Robbie was my first love (I was 5 years old when my brother first brought
Robbie to Iowa as he was from Hawaii and that was too far to travel to for school vacations) and indeed our family adored him. He was a remarkable young man who didn't drink or smoke but was still loved by his Dartmouth College fraternity mates because he was a great guy. He was and still is the finest young man I've ever known. His death was and is a tragedy. I wore his MIA bracelet for years. We still miss him.
His death was not necessary. The Vietnam War was a complicated mess driven by fear and politics and men who were not honest with the American people. We all mourn and regret the loss of so many. And no one I've ever spoken with in my life (I am 44) has degraded or denounced, or questioned the honor of any soldier who fought or was lost in that war. We have only questioned the government that sent such fine men to fight that war. Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, they were all guilty.
My brother's other best friend, Fred Priester,USMC, who flew F4 Phantoms and bombed Hanoi, wonders why he had to but is vehemently patriotic about the "missions" he was sent on and who could blame him? The Communists were going to take over the world.
John Kerry is not disrespecting Vietnam veterans. On the contrary, he spoke of what so many of his fellow troops felt about fighting and killing and dying for and by people who were not threatening the USA. John Kerry has not and did not in his actions or words disrespect our Vietnam
veterans. He has just had the courage to question the men who sent so many
brave young people to die. We have the right to question our government and surely have learned that war is Hell. If we are sending troops to fight they better be fighting in the real enemy country and against the real source and threat against us and for a clear and honest cause.
Please think and read more about John Kerry.
I wish Robbie were still alive.
We are sorry for the loss of your friend. What Kerry did, though, goes far beyond "disrespect for Vietnam veterans."----------
So he thought it was futal just as it sounds like YOU yourself just described. I agree. Nothing changed by our being there except we lost many good Americans there. I believe the same thing is going on now in Iraq under Bush. Iraq did not bomb us on 9/11 & yet we went after Hussein with a "vengeance." If you are a Republican, I think you need to examine Bush's intents, because they are current events as opposed to what you interpret Mr. Kerry's actions to be over 30+ years ago. Do your REALLY want Bush as President with all that is being revealed about the war we are currently fighting & losing soldiers to daily.
But enough of Kerry. Let's talk instead about 1993, when you lived in Richmond -- the year many people believe you cruelly murdered your neighbor and her children.
Now, none of that is true, but let's imagine that we made such claims on television and before Congress. That we held public presentations to dramatize the savage manner in which you slaughtered your helpless victims. Let's imagine further that you were despised and treated with contempt because of our false charges.
Would you feel resentment? Would you be content with the explanation that we were just trying to express what so many people feel about the horrors of crime?
We do plan to read more about John Kerry, and would gently suggest that you do the same. You might also want to learn just a bit more about what happened in Southeast Asia after the communists won.
We are not, repeat, not making these letters up.----------
Rd: Time Line
Okay, let's keep this simple. A key reason America lost the Vietnam War was that Kerry and others convinced many people that our troops were monsters who committed war crimes every day. This was a lie. After the war, communists murdered millions of people in Southeast Asia.
Kerry's candidacy has provided a long-overdue chance for Vietnam vets to clear their names and set the record straight. We think providing a central repository for researching and reporting on these matters serves a useful purpose, so that's what we're doing.
Great work. I wish you could publish a brochure with this timeline and
distribute it to every corner of the country.
Thanks very much.----------
I sure hope Kerry learns someday that national referendums, congressional peace treaties, and an Indian "nation" on Alcatraz are not constitutional!
Unfortunately with a printed brochure you'd lose all the links, which contain some of the most interesting material. It might make a pretty good (if dauntingly long) html email, though.
Good point. For a guy aspiring to work within the system, Kerry was remarkably unconcerned about such matters.----------
Your recent comments on What's New crack me up! ie....
"Sure, that's right. An ex-Navy officer on his honeymoon in Paris just happens to bump into the top representatives of America's wartime enemy, and sits down for a little policy chat. Hey, it could happen to anybody..."
Keep up the maaarvelous work!!
Thanks very much. One wonders exactly how Kerry, who at the time was not yet a leader in the VVAW, hadn't yet testified before Congress, and in fact had no notoriety whatsoever except for a failed congressional bid, wound up talking to North Vietnam's top negotiators...----------
What have you got going on here? It looks like a cross between a pity-party and a mutual-ass-kissing society!
Kerry's flack claims he "wasn't negotiating" with Madame Binh. That we believe -- negotiation presupposes a difference of opinion.
You rednecks are AMUSING. Keep writing to each other because we like to tune in for a few laughs. You guys act like characters in the movie, Groundhog Day. You're stuck in the '70's and can't get out.
Keep clinging to your lying Bush, you're going to be losers in November. And America will be the winner.
P.S. The site that linked me to yours, claims that John McCain is a wacko. Let's see, we've got Kerry and McCain against you bunch of whining, permanently disgruntled vets? That's an easy choice. You lose again!
Proud Democrat, cause Reptiles are liars.
This is a fairly typical sample of what we're receiving from the opposition. You'd think by now we would have heard from the varsity, but no, content-free name calling continues to be the order of the day.----------
Exceptional Site! I surfed over from VSFVAX and was immediately impressed. When I got down to the tirade by Ms. Lori Anderson, I had to check out a site that had to be full of developmentally arrested garbage. I was not disappointed, but I did got a queasy feeling in my stomach.
Then again, maybe this *is* the varsity.
I immediately flashed back to the Viet Nam Era, not in ‘Nam but the World. The “Pill” had recently arrived on the scene and the Sexual Revolution was in full swing. Foremost among these revolutionaries were the “college chicks,” gladly giving their all for the anti-war movement. E.g., Tom Hayden may have been the brains, but Jane had the weapon. These modern days Lysistratae did not withhold sex, they used it as to entice young men to evade the draft, desert, join the movement, or lie about their exploits in Viet Nam. I guess a young Navy Lieutenant could not escape their wiles. I guess he was just too Massachusetts.
Been there. Done that, but I cheated. I just accepted all that I could from my willing servants and got on with the war. I entered the Air Force Academy in 1960 and after graduating there and finishing pilot training, began a career. I spent part of every year from ’66 until ’72 in South East Asia. Admittedly, a lot of it was cushy duty, but the only “Winter Soldier” incident of which I am aware, occurred during one of my own flights.
We had free fire zones in the Central Highlands, too. They were unpopulated areas and “clearing guns” was a ritual. I caught a gunner on my UH-1N, throwing an ammo box out of the ship over a village. I immediately dressed him down. When we returned to Ban Me Thout, I immediately took him to the gunner’s hooch. I informed those present of the incident and told them to pass it on. “If I ever even hear of such action again, I will bring the man responsible up on charges.” Everyone I knew would have had the same reaction. With all of his bluster and derring-do, why did Kerry not do the same thing?
Remember, Kerry is not a Democrat from conviction, but convenience. I do not believe he possesses any belief, save in his mentor, Teddy. Keep up the good work.
So far, we've resisted speculating about what motivated Kerry to join the other side. Your suggestion may or may not be correct, but it certainly is compelling.----------
I have a question which the "Incoming" readership may be able to answer. I am extremely disturbed about the revelations of Kerry's participation in the VVAW group when discussions ensued about assassinations of some Congressional leaders, partly from the basis of obvious legal and moral disgust, and partly on a personal basis since one of the targets, Senator Tower, was my Senator whom I had personally met two or three times when he considered me for a West Point appointment. (I did receive the nomination from my Congressman in 1967, but elected to attend Texas A&M as I was enrolled in Pre-Med).
My understanding is that Commissioned officers have a special legal service obligation which extends beyond their active duty service. Unless completely discharged from their commission, most retain a Reserve obligation if a simple request for release from active duty is requested. To me, this indicates that once one has accepted a Commission at the pleasure of the President of the United States, one has both legal and moral duties on an ongoing basis, and is not really "just an ordinary citizen." Therefore, if a former Commissioned officer is present at a meeting which advocates violent overthrow of the United States and the assassination of government officials, my question is this: does this officer, even if relieved from active duty, still have some legal obligation to take appropriate action in such a situation? I think all people, except liberals, of course, would unquestionably feel that such an individual would have a moral duty to take action, and, if anything else, the fact that they had associated with individuals capable of forming such criminal intent would indicate a serious deficiency in judgement.
I have searched Department of Defense regulations for an indication of the ongoing legal obligations of officers released from active duty, but have not found anything specific to address this issue. Perhaps some of the JAG or Personnel people are more knowledgeable. It seems certain that Kerry had a moral duty to do more than just "resign" when murder was discussed; perhaps he had a legal obligation to do more.
C. Alan Hopewell, Ph.D., M.S. PsyPharm, ABPP
Former Major, United States Army
In a new NewsMax article, former homicide detective Bo Dietl states that merely taking part in such discussions would qualify as conspiracy to commit murder.----------
I am sending you a copy of a letter I wrote and that was published in the
Hamilton Journal, Hamilton, OH. I hope you will be able to use this letter in that it explains my views regarding Senator Kerry, and his treasonist actions as a member of the Executive Committee of the VVAW.
Mr. Dietl's remarks apply to all citizens. Perhaps WinterSoldier.com readers can help answer Dr. Hopewell's question about the more stringent requirements placed on former commissioned officers.
Thank you very much for your web site, God bless you and keep up the Good Fight.
Kerry Won't Get This Veteran's Vote
Mr. Thomas Sowell's commentary "Random thoughts," in Sunday's JournalNews of Feb. 29, refers to the people who "Defended a draft dodger running for president a dozen years ago are now trying to make an issue of President Bush's National Guard service. People who have been saying that everyone is innocent until proven guilty are now saying that whatever information is released about Mr. Bush's service "still leaves questions unanswered." Mr. Sowell went on to state: "The Encyclopedia Britannica leaves questions unanswered."
I whole-heartedly agree with Mr. Sowell's statements. Sen. John Kerry supported Mr. William Jefferson Clinton's run for the presidency in 1992, as did senator's Kennedy, Edwards and many Democrats who are making the loudest disparaging remarks relating to President Bush's National Guard service.
It is extremely disingenuous on Mr. Kerry's part and those within the Democratic Party to do this without looking at Mr. Kerry's actions after his service in Vietnam. President Bush did not stab those who were still in Vietnam in the back by protesting against their being in Vietnam, which provided aid and comfort to those we were fighting against in Vietnam. These actions of John Kerry served to cause the NVA and the Viet Cong to continue to fight, and inflict more deaths on those still serving the United States military in Vietnam.
I, as a Vietnam veteran who served between 1965-66 with the 1st Cavalry Division, believe that those Vietnam veterans who in an organized group protested the war in Vietnam did more harm and caused more casualties than any of the men who ran off to Canada to avoid military service could ever have inflicted.
It is for this reason that Sen. John Keny will never receive my vote in his bid to become president of the United States.
Charles O. W. McVey, Sr.
Thanks for passing along your letter. Vietnam vets and those who support them have in John Kerry's candidacy a unique opportunity to refute the lies they were tarred with more than 30 years ago. Writing to a local paper is an excellent way to do this, since the number of people who get their news online is still a minority.----------
I just saw your site for the first time. Keep up the good work. So many forget about the honor and sacrifice of our Vets.
We would take issue with one of your points. We don't see opposing or even protesting against the war in Vietnam as necessarily anti-American. But we draw the line at working in cooperation with America's enemies, consistently adopting their positions and talking points, and helping them smear American troops as murderers of women and children.
In the Doonesbury article the author asks "Does this country have the will to fight a protracted war against the terrorist networks and regimes that
planned the mass murder of our citizens, even at the cost of ongoing casualties?"
This is a stupid question; of course we do. What's being disputed is: is invading Iraq was the right way to do this? Everyone agrees we need to get Bin Laden. It's been obvious from the get go, that despite our administration's say to the contrary, that there was never any operational connection between Bin Laden and Hussein. It is disingenuous to imply those against this war are pro-terrorism. I think you underestimate
your reader's intelligence.
Thanks for listening,
Certainly not everyone who opposed the Iraq War supports terrorism. However, such opposition does reduce our ability to confront terrorism by limiting our options. Remember that similar opposition thirty years ago tied our hands politically, leaving us unable to respond to the communist genocide in Southeast Asia.
Page Five of "Incoming"
There's a lot more to the terror networks than Bin Laden, and it isn't at all obvious that the American public will support an extended engagement with Al Qaeda and its friends. This promises to be a multi-year effort with operations in a variety of places. Dealing with the regimes that sponsor and support the terror network is a critical part of that process.
By the way, if there was no connection between Saddam Hussein's Iraq and the terror networks, why is the recent mass murder in Madrid assumed to be Al Qaeda's revenge against Spain for supporting the U.S. in the Iraq War?
Iraq did support the terror networks, by providing arms, training, intelligence and safe haven. That's no longer the case. As a fringe benefit, 25 million Iraqis now have an opportunity to live in freedom.
Last Updated Friday, April 17 2009 @ 08:58 AM MDT; 32,890 Hits